And all the companies can get back to building products that actually benefit their users without relying on these algorithms to be the primary driver of engagement. And after that, you know, everyone's - there's this - there's a level playing field. So if you were to say, you know what? We're going to unilaterally decrease our revenue by 10 or 20% - your shareholders would yell at you.īut if it's Congress that can step in, then everyone's impacted the same. And they have shareholders, of course, to report to. So even if Facebook or YouTube wanted to do the right thing, they really can't today because of market pressure. LINDSAY: You know, there's no incentive for them to get rid of these algorithms themselves, which is why it needs to be Congress to step in and say there needs to be a comprehensive regulation that limits these for everybody, not just for one site or another. But what effect would this have on their business model? What is your sense of - and I know you don't speak for Facebook.
The businesses they've conducted, it has been extremely profitable. MARTIN: But what about the business side of it? I mean, I think critics', like Frances Haugen's, point has been that one of the reasons that Facebook doesn't do this or hasn't done this on its own is that it's been very profitable. So there is some precedent for the Supreme Court saying there are ways in which we can limit the amplification of speech - not the speech itself, but how it's amplified and distributed. And the Supreme Court actually upheld Trenton's - Trenton, N.J.'s law in 1949. And so some cities started passing some laws regulating these sound trucks, saying, you know, you can't drive around and blast this speech into people's homes at this very loud level. were plagued with these sound trucks that would drive around with these huge horns and amplify music and commercials and things like that. You know, in the 1940s, cities around the U.S. I mean, that would obviously run into the First Amendment issues.īut if you just focus on the amplication (ph) part of it, there's some historical precedent for this. LINDSAY: You know, Congress has grappled with, well, how do you do this in a way that doesn't, you know, run afoul of the First Amendment? You know, you don't want Congress getting - you know, saying this is the type of speech you can host. If it's straightforward and simple, why do you think it hasn't happened yet? MARTIN: You've described it as a straightforward reform. And I think what that would do is that - it would change the incentives for these companies to change the way they create these feeds and create their products and go more towards a model that puts control back in the hands of users and make it, you know, understandable, the way that they're ordering content and get it out of the hands of these sort of black-box AI algorithms. I think as a society, we're grappling with, you know, whether we want these algorithms in our lives and whether they're compatible with democracy.Īnd the good news is that there's a relatively straightforward fix that Congress can make, which basically says if you're in the business of using these algorithms to distribute content, you as a platform need to take responsibility in that.
This type of content can take hold and spread very quickly in a very short period of time. RODDY LINDSAY: There are some real risks associated with these algorithms that can amplify content that once might have been relegated to a fringe corner of the internet. And he began by explaining why they're so dangerous.
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He wrote an op-ed for The New York Times about how to regulate algorithms. He's a former data scientist who worked on algorithms at Facebook, which, we'll say again, has been a financial supporter of NPR. That's the artificial intelligence social media companies use to rank or promote content. During the Senate hearing, whistleblower Frances Haugen said critics should focus on the company's algorithms. We want to talk more about what that could look like. As we just heard, both Democrats and Republicans have started talking about regulating Facebook and other Big Tech companies.
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